is the n in bon pronounced?
@candle The n only serves to make the vowel nasal.
The French nasal vowels are: "on", "an", "un"/"in" (the last two are supposed to be different from each other, but the nuance is increasingly lost in most regions)
@Louvelune and in bonne is the pronounciation different?
@Louvelune @candle i can rec you a bit of pronounciation if you want
it works the same way for words with -om too (or is it just exceptions??? ugh can't tell)
@sempervirenx @Louvelune pronunciation tips always welcome, i won't remember them properly but they will be there somewhere in my mind for later...
@sempervirenx @candle It's just a graphic thing: the n becomes m when followed by b or p (like in 'jambe'/leg, or 'lampe') - that's because these 3 letters are made by pressing the lips together, n isn't.
So technically yes, it works the same: "ombre" is the nasal "on", but "homme" has its 'm' properly pronounced.
But it's a by-product of that graphic convention, it's the presence of the m that's a weird grammatical add-on... xD
@candle @sempervirenx Sorry, I shouldn't encourage thinking of those things as *weirdness* though, it always has a reason. It's just that sometimes it goes back too far to still make sense...
This "n into m" thing, for example, comes from latin: they didn't have nasals, so pronouncing 'n' immediately followed by p/b was hard, and the switch to lip-pressing m made perfect sense.
We just kept that even after the nasal vowels emerged, because we don't ret-con common words' spellings when the reason fades away... ^^°
@sempervirenx @Louvelune interesting you may have missed while away: i learnt i pronounce the english r abnormally! (or rather my generation increasingly pronounce it a new way...)
@candle @sempervirenx Oh? ::wriggle linguistic ears:: *o*
Do you have a source? I assume it was in an article or something? :3 https://witches.town/media/OGaw6l23J2v6rVhkgrI
@sempervirenx @Louvelune think its called r-labialization
@candle @sempervirenx Oooooh, I went to the wiki page (for starters), it's fascinating..
To hell with their Proper™ Pronunciation™, language is alive and we make it grow! \o/
@Louvelune @candle that's not totally correct: you actually pronounce the "n" separately of the "o" when it is followed by a vowel or an "n", like in "bonne" or "sonate".
Otherwise, the "on" is pronounced [ɔ̃] ("bonbon", "mastodon"…).
@Deuchnord @candle Right, I forgot that another vowel also separates them: because 2 vowels can't be in the same syllable (unless we mercilessly crushed them together, like 'oi' or the poor, wounded 'œ' chimera... :< ) - so the n+following vowel form a distinct vowel, and it's not compounded into a nasal with the first vowel.
@Louvelune @candle in fact, just two "n" suffice to restore the [on] pronunciation, like in "Bonn" (the German city) ^^
@Deuchnord @candle Yes, that's what I was saying in the original toot? :D
@Louvelune @candle oh, yes, sorry ^^'
@candle Yes, that's why the n is doubled: to mark this is a separate sound, not the nasal vowel ensemble. #grammarlogic #grammarmagic ^^