@paulfree14 But, I think that we as anarchists should focus on other leftists/progressives as well (maybe even more). Cause they have also a lot of wrong biases. Mainly because of mainstream opinions. And those people are the first who should be able to understand #anarchism. @radicalgraffiti

@radicalgraffiti @jeroenpraat agree on!
face to face and lokal the best.
But think also mastodon is a great.place for that. ....as there are many progressive ppl...and a lot of them, also thx to #LGBTQ are observing their own and other biases.
If the cultural development continues that way anarchy can be the mainstream on mastodon (guess it is even already). ....and as mastdon catch on popularity...:)

@paulfree14 I followed a talk by Peter Gelderloos about its new book 'Worshipping Power'. It's about state-formation.

The conclusion I got was that states, capitalism and patriarchy are inseparable. With that in mind, you can easily argue that #feminism and #LGBTQ+ issues can only be dealt correctly within #anarchism.

@radicalgraffiti

@jeroenpraat @paulfree14 @radicalgraffiti

I've got some issues with this. One of which is that it's corrosive to left unity. Also, telling feminists or LGBT people that they're wasting their time unless they're in anarchism (which is not what you said, but it's not a huge leap) is problematic, especially given the existence of manarchists (who would 100% make that leap).

@pettter Anarchism is not an economic system like capitalism, so it's not an alternative to capitalism. @paulfree14 @radicalgraffiti @celesteh

@jeroenpraat @pettter @paulfree14 @celesteh anarchism is comunism

@radicalgraffiti No (although it can be mixed with anarchism) Communism is also not an economic system. The economic system in the USSR was 'state-capitalism'. @pettter @paulfree14 @celesteh

@jeroenpraat @pettter @paulfree14 @celesteh

anarchism that isn't communist is just "what if people where nice nonsense" and communism which isn't anarchist makes no sense, how can the working class the means of production and abolish it self thought hte state, it just makes no sense

i never mentioned the soviet union, i have no idea what your on about

@radicalgraffiti Is that communism is more than economic system. It's a way to build a society. And yes anarcho-communism (so without a state as the vanguard) is the most desirable form. The economic part of anarcho-communism (and related ideologies) is for instance a democratic economy. @pettter @paulfree14 @celesteh

@celesteh Manarchists are confused anarchist that don't understand the influence of patriarchy, so let's not talk about them. They are stuck in the 19th century.

What I said (as agreed with Peter Gelderloos - read his book!) is that the state, capitalism and patriarchy need each-other. They are different things, but they are inseparable. So to fight patriarchy you need to fight capitalism and the state too.

@paulfree14 @radicalgraffiti

@jeroenpraat @paulfree14 @radicalgraffiti

Every feminist and LGBT person I know has had experience with manarchists and they're part of why anarchism is not more integrated. We can't just 'not speak of' one of the most visible and vocal parts of the movement.

I mean, we could make that choice, but it's not going to convince the above groups to join...

@celesteh I'm not saying that manarchists aren't a problem, but it's not related to the theoretical conclusion I wrote. You see 'most vocal part' - that's something I never experienced (and also not women I spoke). And those kind of people are also in the socialist and Marxist movement (even more I think).

@paulfree14 @radicalgraffiti

@radicalgraffiti @jeroenpraat @celesteh
patriachy has nothing to do with anarchy.
But indeed we raised up in a opressive world so as some are still stock with biases. (I'm not tolerating this)

@paulfree14 Yes, I really don't understand how an anarchist doesn't understand patriarchy, cause that's the most visible part of the hierarchy anarchists are fighting.
@radicalgraffiti @celesteh

@celesteh @jeroenpraat @paulfree14

"left unity" is terrible though

i do disagree with the statement that

"The conclusion I got was that states, capitalism and patriarchy are inseparable."

the state and patriarchy clearly predate capitalism, and racism was developed alone with capitalism

capitalism uses these things for profit and control, but thats because its opportunist, not because it couldn't exist without them

@paulfree14 @jeroenpraat @celesteh
i think the opportunist nature of capitalism does mean that struggles against patriarchy and racism must become anti capitalist or else they become diverted into getting women leaders and black leaders into positions of power, rather than challenging the structures of those oppressions

@radicalgraffiti @jeroenpraat @paulfree14

I think left unity is a really valuable strategy right now because of the real presence of fascism and the existential risks of climate change. If we can't fight together, we're doomed.

@celesteh Yes I agree with left-unity (well without Stalinists and Maoists), but that doesn't mean we can discuss things. Even between anarchists there a lot of discussions. @radicalgraffiti @paulfree14

@celesteh @jeroenpraat @paulfree14
its lowest common denominator shit. it means abandoning principles to support scum like the swp who will stab us in the back, the call the cops on anarchists, and endanger comrades by protecting rapists

@radicalgraffiti @jeroenpraat @paulfree14 Ok, yeah, of course there are limits, which include the swp. Would 'left solidarity' be a better term?

@celesteh Whatever you call it. Of course we meet each-other and agree with each-other many times. I think the (European) anarchists can even learn something (in an anarchist way) from how socialist and Marxists are organized. But we have some theoretical differences, especially regarding hierarchies. @radicalgraffiti @paulfree14

@celesteh @jeroenpraat @paulfree14
i think maybe just solidarity? or solidarity + (issue)
working class solidarity or working class unite have some good points, as they centre the class rather the specific political groups and identities but they can be manipulated to suppress dealing with issues of racism and sexism

@jeroenpraat @radicalgraffiti @celesteh
I guess it's about interpretating unity in different ways.
for me it's kind of, I don't need unity to do action together. Doing action together might be called unity.
If we do action togehter through a network of diverse individuals/goups there is no chance of 'single failure' for just having one abroach but the chance of solving issues in so many ways that the world get more and more colorful by us doing so.

@radicalgraffiti @jeroenpraat @celesteh
'unless they are anarchism' ....was reading the text before sending out and hoped no one will think I mean that xD.

@radicalgraffiti @jeroenpraat @celesteh
...what I would say is if #feminists aren't anarchists they're going to copy opressive behaviors.

@paulfree14 That's true. Am I bold if I say that anarchism is the only anti-hierarchical, anti-opressive, meta-ideology?

But I think only anarcha-feminists can make the assumption of '#feminism can't be without #anarchism'. Before we are considered a manarchist. 😉

@radicalgraffiti @celesteh