@awilfox most people have phones, you enable them to use phones to talk within the mesh even w/ cell jamming they're starting to deploy, and you have a route out as long as SOMEONE has a route out

@nire I wasn't aware that phones were capable of connecting to mesh networks; in that case, that's great!

@awilfox the outside facing nodes for most of them are basically just adhoc wifi connections

@awilfox the routing is handled within the mesh

@awilfox at least that was my understanding of the current leading-edge ones, but that project may have never panned out

@nire I've only used really primitive ones that were one step above QAM-over-ham, to be fair. There could be a whole new generation of protocols since I was twiddling.

@nire @awilfox For batteries look at 1S LiPo batteries for things like remote control cars/planes/boats/quadcopters

The Pi Zero W will draw a max of somewhere under 300mA so depending on how long you want them active (I'd go for at least 10 hours personally) you should be able to find some cheapish ones

@troubleMoney @awilfox lipo is incredibly suboptimal because of two things, it xrays as the same density and look of molded c4, and it has a tendency to light on fire when kept in enclosed spaces while being used

@nire @troubleMoney does it even need to be rechargable? I mean, NiCad might work okay, but I'm wondering if you could get away with a coin cell or AAAs.

@awilfox @troubleMoney not for powering wifi that long. rechargable is better just because of energy density per unit volume after a point

@nire @awilfox Ah, wasn't aware x-ray detection was in your threat model for this.

Hang on, you're expecting people to be using phones to access this right? You've got a battery right there, just grab power from the phone and have the Pi Zero as a sort of phone case.

You might be able to camouflage it as one of those battery extender cases as well

@troubleMoney @awilfox so two things, one is they arent nec. connected to people with phones, and two, my threat model is 'have nothing cops can use to escallate charges out of ignorance or feigned ignorance', so it xraying as that is just part of that

@awilfox @troubleMoney (also lipo batteries dont take impacts very well, which, well, they'll be in bags on people who might get thrown around a lot, and your bag lighting on fire in their car ALSO is a reason to escallate charges)

@nire @awilfox Full stealth job then, preferably nothing on anyone in the area.

Does the mesh have to be mobile or can it be comprised of stationary gear that blends in to the environment?

Also are there likely to be any handy locations to set longer range gear?

@troubleMoney @awilfox no you misunderstand

it existing is fine

it having lipo batteries is a shitty idea

@nire @awilfox I'd hazard a guess that if they're going to take exception to common batteries then they'll probably pick up on the raspberry pis that a bunch of people seem to have

@troubleMoney @awilfox yeah, the difference is that there have been cases of them escallating for robot/drone batteries becaues they ~*~resemble explosives~*~ around here. I get that you're trying to do a thing but you're completely misunderstanding like, half the points that i've been spelling out

@nire @awilfox Ah shit, now I get it. Not entirely sure how someone can be creatively ignorant to the point where a battery looks like a bomb but I guess they found a way

@troubleMoney @awilfox so the thing is lithium polymer batteries are a larger subset and things generally referred to as lithium polymer, which i assumed you were using, are the ones w/ soft shells and squishy insides, and prone to overcharge/overdischarge because, well, they're cheap, but even cheap Li-Ion batteries usually have charging circuitry

@awilfox @troubleMoney and are uh, actually impact resistant

@nire @awilfox I was considering that as a packaging issue rather than a reason to rule them out completely but those are really good reasons

@troubleMoney @awilfox yeah sorry for the misunderstanding, i realised that it might be regional that li-po is specifically the squishy, dangerous, firey ones <_<

@nire @awilfox No worries, your threat model is something that I haven't dealt with before

I was thinking put the whole shebang in a solid project case, that way they won't look and think "SHIT WIRES AND CIRCUITRY" and it'd provide protection to the batteries. Would fix the delicacy problems but not x-ray. Unless you line the entire thing with tinfoil but that would look even worse to them

@troubleMoney @awilfox lmao

@nire @awilfox Hang on, could they by any chance creatively mistake a commercially sold usb power bank for phones as anything sinister?

'cause those are dead cheap, have all the charging circuitry, have decent batteries, and provide the right sort of power

@troubleMoney @nire @awilfox

RPi, "normal" looking USB power pack and a "wifi adapter type gadget" aren't especially unusual or suspicious for a person to be carrying around with them; depending on how smart cops are could be explained away as "music player for portable sound system"/ "college project you happened to still have in your bag".

Whereas drone batteries, "home brew" circuit boards etc *are* more likely to arouse suspicion..

@vfrmedia @nire @awilfox Honestly I was kinda caught up in the "let's make stuff" wheel reinvention party that is every RPi project idea when I should have been thinking of the really fucking obvious

@awilfox @nire @vfrmedia Right, in some attempt to be actually useful, for sourcing things take a look at aliexpress, they're the cheapest place I've found for phone battery charger things and stuff like that.

Also go for the Pi Zero W, it's really damn hard to find a wifi dongle that's any decent for less than 5 bucks

@troubleMoney I feel like you may be misunderstanding @nire.

LiPo batteries that are available to makers and enthusiasts are NOT the same quality as Apple or Sony batteries. They are much more fragile.

They are much more likely to turn into incendiary devices on their own, just from normal use. And they *look* like one to the untrained eye.

That can be dangerous when the authorities already want a reason to get rid of you.

@awilfox also those are lithium ion

@awilfox lipo are those but in soft-bag shells, which is, yes.