@nergdron Yes. We've taken systemd out of our Deb installs, but it keeps trying to weasel its way back in.

Tried Devuan for a while, but went back to unstitching Debian.

@sophieactual yeah. I liked upstart tbh, that plus a separate syslog system was clean and fast and easy to reason about. but given desktop envs are also tied into NetworkManager now, which is tied into systemd, I haven't found a way to ditch systemd on desktop systems. it's so annoying.

Oh well. at least I know I can live without their resolver relatively easily.

@nergdron Manually up and downing stuff without NetworkManager does suck.

Regularly wonder if we've fallen over the edge from picky into just plain stupid.