distelfliege @distelfliege@witches.town

@natanji of course these are only personal experiences and that doesn't say anything about the subject in general, and especially not about how it currently is taught. but it's telling me that stuff can always still go wrong.. :/

@natanji I actually learned about religious extremism and christian fundamentalism in english class. I remember, we did translate this Genesis' song "Jesus he knows me" and talked about TV preachers and the religious right, the bible belt, all that stuff, in the US..

had it not been for my english teacher.. yay for her!

@natanji one more thing about risking it: as we only have christian faith taught in public schools, we are already risking it - for all other religions.

and for christianity: I can only hope that it is better now than it was when I was a kid, because when I was a kid, they had no clue about christian extremism and my religion teacher even used extremist materials in school, from evangelical fundamentalists from the US.

I had to do talk to my parents, get support, and confront him. at least he promised me not to use that specific material again.

so in my case it was me, a child, protecting myself from religious extremism..

@natanji I think that's what we can agree on. I would not want a "general religion" class, but a general class about religions and nonreligious worldviews, like philosophy, atheism, agnosticism, everything should be represented, not only religions. what teachers believe or not is nobodies' business but their own. I would expect them to handle it as their personal thing though. not hiding it, but also not evangelizing.

I was arguing for a clear separation of churches/religious institutions, and the state, that's all. :)

blaiifalifrgghhhhl I've painted this and I absolutely couldn't get it to do what I wanted and now it's done and I don't know if I like it.

this was painted after an art class by Annie Hamman. Her style to paint faces is so different from mine I have no idea. but I tried!
#lifebook2018
#mastoart
#mixedmedia
#artclass

@natanji thanks for explaining again! in the meantime, I think I got it. I already tried to answer this 💫

ok I went out to get one paint I still needed and now I'm going for the painting step two!
yaaaay
#lifebook2018

@natanji and I'm saying this "believe a lot of bullshit" as someone who believes some bullshit themselves, not to be disrespectful.

@natanji if they become extremists and proceed to harm other people, that's no longer their religious freedom in my opinion. just to be sure there is no misunderstanding.

I think it's everyone's right to believe a lot of bullshit but it's not their right to bother other people with it 😉

so yeah.. fight the extremists..

@natanji okay, I read again and also with your next toot I think I get what you meant. so religious teaching that's not state-controlled can become dangerous and extreme?

I agree and I think that is basically a risk that a society that grants religious freedom has to take, even though it is dangerous.

freedom of religion is a freedom that can be abused. but people should be free to believe in their stuff and teach it to others, who consent to be taught, without asking the state if that's okay. (I'm also against teaching people who aren't interested ;)

@natanji I see that point, but I would still rather have a clean separation between public schools and the teaching of a specific faith, which is a thing of the religios group to handle, not the state's.

first: teachers in public schools could still try to talk to kids who are exposed to extremism outside their schools

second: religious extremists are always creating a strong separation between them and moderate people of the same faith, so that children would be indoctrinated not to listen to the teachers, be they religious themselves or not..

@natanji yes, and this need can be fulfilled outside of public schools.

I'm sorry I don't get what is so dangerous about it.

@natanji no, I don't want christian churches teaching their religion exclusively in public schools.

public schools in berlin/brandenburg did have a school subject on religions, (maybe still do) but it wasn't taught by people from one particular church and it was not all about one religion. that's pretty fine with me! when I went to school in christian southern germany, I voted to go to "Ethik" which taught about religion(s) and philosophy. abolishing confessional school subjects doesnt mean not talking about religion(s).

I'm afraid we are not on the same page as to what I'm talking about right now :)

@natanji @elomatreb Es geht nicht um Privilegien religiöser Menschen, sondern um die Privilegien die christliche Kirchen in Deutschland haben, z.B. dass sie z.B. konfessionelle Einrichtungen vom Staat bezahlen lassen, Lehrer*innen und der Unterricht wird vom Staat bezahlt, und das ist jetzt nur das wenige was mir from the top of my head einfiel, aber es gibt Verträge zwischen Staat und Kirchen.

@nuhn thanks! it's available here if you want to take a look: https://www.willowing.org/

@elomatreb ich finde es nicht fair, anderen religiösen institutionen nun auch privilegien zu gewähren.

das ist atheistischen menschen gegenüber ungerecht.

und am gerechtesten und einfachsten wäre es doch, dass alle das, was sie glauben wollen, als privatsache behandeln, und glaubensgemeinschaften ihren finanzkram ohne den staat organisieren.

@elomatreb ich finde, die privatisierung von religion und das abschaffen von christlichen kirchenprivilegien sowieso ein hohes ziel an sich..

so wie es jetzt ist, finde ich es jedenfalls zum kotzen 🤢

leider hast du recht, realitisch ist es nicht, anzunehmen, dass man die von ihren privilegien wegbekommt.

aber richtiger wär's.. fairer wärs.

@thomas @musicmatze no, it's really only about the privileges and getting state and religious institutions separated. so that we wouldn't have to debate if any other religions deserved similar privileges on the grounds that they "belong here" or not.
take the privileges away, end the debate, that's it..

of course that's also hard to achieve.. *sigh*

@musicmatze @thomas I'm not talking about ridding germany of christian culture, that would be nice, but unachievable indeed. 😂

@elomatreb stimme ich dir völlig zu, aber mein punkt ist nicht, wieso hat seehofer das gesagt? sondern, welche strukturen in der deutschen gesellschaft bewirken eigentlich, dass sich politiker wie seehofer überhaupt dazu äussern, (und damit ernst genommen werden) welche religionen zu dieser kultur/gesellschaft "passen" und welche nicht. weil da stecken ja interessen dahinter.