down with Vehicular cycling :P

@distelfliege That's ambiguous. Do you mean you're down with it, or death to it?

@Reinderdijkhuis hihi I think death to it is too strong but that's the direction I was going :D

@distelfliege @Reinderdijkhuis

I interpreted it in the British/Irish sense of "something to be discouraged" (not sure if Father Ted has been shown in DE or NL, but if it has you might recognise this)

@vfrmedia @Reinderdijkhuis
I think the background of my toot is that I'm debating a VC guy on birdsite, which is all super fine and respectful (yay!) but VC was for decades also the politics of all the cycling activists and people like me, who just want to cycle and be left alone by motorists and aren's sporty.. they were not only left out of the activism, but the activism made things actually worse for us.

because cities' governments thought: oh neat, those cyclists don't want cycling infrastructure. they want to use the roads. so we don't have to build or maintain anything. cheap!
:-(

@Reinderdijkhuis @vfrmedia at the same time officials didn't do anything that cyclists get more respected. and the bicycle lobby in germany blamed "unprofessional" cyclists for not getting respected: "you ride too close to the gutter. it's your own fault if you get passed too closely! oh, you don't want to put up with the violence and the bullying when riding in the middle of the lane? shut up, you sissy.. "

I'm so glad this era is over.

@distelfliege @vfrmedia Is it? It's been years since I got on bicycle forums that had this kind of activism. Basically, once I made up my mind on the issue for myself, I lost interest in the question. It didn't help that the VC crowd lived in a bizarro world where it was appropriate to pity the Dutch for having bike lanes everywhere.

@Reinderdijkhuis @vfrmedia In Germany, the turn for lobbying for bikelanes took place 4 years ago, I think. Not long ago. before that, the main german cycling organisation, the ADFC, was nearly completely in favour of VC.

I'm not too interested in that eigther but you get a lot of debate... on german twitter :D

@distelfliege @Reinderdijkhuis@mastodon.

in UK our cycling clubs have been "sport dominated" and attracted the kind of people who were strong/fit enough for VC.

I suspect a reason for change in DE and UK is a desire to encourage high kids to cycle to/from school to improve their physical health,much safer when they have sufficient space

Last week I had to slow down for school kids cycling home as there were so many, a benefit of the reallocated fast road I mentioned previously.

@vfrmedia @distelfliege
Yeah, I remember that well. It's a vision of cycling that is fundamentally incompatible with mass cycling.

@Reinderdijkhuis @distelfliege and I guess in NL it would be easy to take for granted that thousands of children are *already* cycling to/from school..

An interlinked issue that might affect views is the economic depression since 10 years ago has had an effect of reducing birth rates EU wide - and thus the numbers of children who would now be interested in cycling, but its important not to forget the ones who are around!