@Mirzaba that's really disgusting!! It seems like it's a really huge part of like goth culture in general. So much of it was founded or influenced by people with genuinely awful beliefs, which sucks because the vast majority of goths I've known have been lovely

@c8rz The industrial and goth communities are nominally separate, so the association is more on rivetheads than it is goths. and most rivetheads have no association with Boyd Rice's style, the scene he comes from, etc. whole world of dark subcultures is so split into many communities, camps, aesthetics. His type are now a dying relic divorced from rivet/goth culture.

@Mirzaba that's interesting! I never really noticed much separation between them here - either because the communities are smaller or I wasn't paying a ton of attention haha. I just mean like, every alt community I know has had a nazi problem at least, and there's generally a lot of argument about industrial musicians in particular being spectacularly problematic even now - there was that shit about him off combichrist doing blackface, a few months back

@c8rz ...fucking Combichrist. Yeah the goth and rivethead communities have a weird pseudo-federated nature. Really it's a lot like cliques generally, or can be more deep rooted and significant. The separations are kinda hard to tell apart from the outside looking in, but for example like, the whole Futurepop camp is entirely separate from the EBM camp despite being the same in every way except one group doesn't like pop music being mixed with industrial dance. It's already dance music, like.. It's not sacred. Come on cyberguys...

@Mirzaba that's like so much more complicated than it seemed when I was extremely goth growing up! Idk if it's a UK/US thing, but I only knew people who considered themselves goth/metalhead/emo, which might give away how extremely 2007 my adolescence was. I know there's like really complicated categorisation amongst actual bands, just most of the people I know over here kinda bonded over having strangers shout "GOFF" at us in the street

@c8rz
Hehe nice. Most of the time the various splinters or subgenres don't really matter all that much but there is an inherent kind of taxonomy to it. Its easier for deathrockers to just say they're goth tho for example, but if you talk to them about death rock or gothic punk stuff, they'll reveal their power level in that niche (cheesy horror movies, death hawks, crazy fashion, etc.

@Mirzaba taxonomy is a really nice way of putting it! I think it never really appealed to me because I never really fit into any of the nicher labels? Like I talk about death a lot and own a non-zero number of sisters of mercy albums, and goth feels like the most accurate way to describe that. Did/do you ever consider yourself any of the more specific subgroups?

@c8rz I was always more into the gothic punk and industrial punk camps. And also the world of goth RPGs, particularly pen and paper. The gothic punk aesthetic is what the deathrock scene falls under, and also a lot of post-punk stuff, and game franchises like World of Darkness. Industrial and punk crossing together as an aesthetic is fairly common too. It already is a bit punk, same with goth, in its roots in post-punk. More specifically, I was really into the whole Waxtrax era of industrial, industrial rock, grimy factory aesthetics, and cyberpunk stuff like Shadowrun. Recently I've specifically liked the dark fantasy art/aesthetic scene more. and biopunk.