@starsmars are you worried that early adopters reap disproportionate rewards, and that those with the least access to resources are further shut out by systems based on technology only available to the rich?

@amsomniac I don't worry about that. It's still too early for blockchain. It will take years to mature and become backbone for society. It's a huge digital society, people can even have token tie to themselves. Yes, it's for everyone, not something only available to the rich.

@pnathan so you see 0 reasonable distributed database applications done this way? I don't like that a lot of these networks try to add scarcity where there isn't any, but that doesn't seem inherent

@amsomniac I can't really conceptualize of any real-world _point_ to blockchain besides "makes nerds happy".

1. append-only database of yuge is an enormous problem, and is being solved by centralized SQL databases that relate to the blockchain.

2. cryptosigning and chains of trust is already a solved problem for entities invested in caring about it.

3. distributed databases involve trust in some sort; accepting input from distrusted/malicious parties requires santitization, so you wind up having to write accept portals in either case.

4. dapps like the DAO are a poor and hackable substitute for having people in a room negotiating.

5. Practically, blockchain mining is centralized to a few cartels. It's not something ordinary people can deal with.

6. It's not approximately anonymous. It's highly traceable to physical space by all interested authorities.

7. Activists using e-transfers are better off building chains of trust and token exchanges. There are enormous *working* ecosystems of unofficial trade and debt on the fringes of the Western commerce system; building a thing where your money can be rm -rf'd is just wack.

8. What the blockchain ecosystem is built on is this idea of a lack of trust. And this is counter to how society and banks run. People *trust* each other to have financial relationships with each other, and this trust is built on centuries of property and commerce law. These ideas out of ancap land try to ignore the entire *idea* of having a working society.

9. Using Venmo, Apple Pay or bank e-transfer apps is a significantly better system out of the gate and down the road.

@pnathan I really like points 5 and 8. I think venmo and apple pay serve a different purpose, and have the problem paypal had when the US asked them to stop payments to wikileaks.

The idea that assuming distrust breeds distrust and is harmful to society is super important, though. Adam Curtis talked about it in The Trap, which I enjoyed a lot, though not specifically in the context of blockchains

@pnathan @amsomniac

For me it also included how arbitrary capitalism rewards early hoarders, sorry "investors", by allowing us to capture the increase in value of bitcoins without moving a dime or improving society.

@Stoori @amsomniac take a look at #Duniter and #G1 too. It slowly but surely growing in France.

https://duniter.org/en/theoretical/