Talking with @Cascadiarch on why she was burnt out so much on fantasy games.
There isn't much sense of depth or development in a lot of character creation. Like, "This is my Elf Ranger. They are an Elf Ranger. At level 20, they will be a level 20 Elf Ranger." No matter what experiences they have, they are Elf Ranger -- maybe they cross class, but generally that's going to have been planned early on.
The game centers on "dungeons, unlocking new powers, finding out where the next batch of XP and GP come from".
There's good RPers in the games, don't get me wrong -- but also it can be hard to emulate real character development sometimes.
@Ulfra_Wolfe @Cascadiarch mmmeeeeehh. yeah, there's going to be restrictions on stuff because of the rules system, but that--should never be a barrier for players to roleplay and develop their characters. it's not something that's restricted to a particular genre, it's more a symptom of bad GMing, players who don't know how to RP, or just a general lack of experience all around.
@green @Cascadiarch The problem is finding the good DMs. ^^;
@Ulfra_Wolfe @Cascadiarch true--I've been ridiculously lucky with my DMs since I first started gaming. and a player either has to have a good GM to build up their confidence or have a *very* strong will and creative streak to manage good RP in spite of a bad/unimaginative GM.
@green @Cascadiarch I still remember the DM that decided to show us how awesome Drizz't was by having him adopt us and treating me like an infantile ranger that didn't know what they were doing and needed babysitting.
@Ulfra_Wolfe @Cascadiarch ........ :|
daaaaamn that's a bad GM. I'm sorry, that's a crap experience to have. :|
@green @Ulfra_Wolfe @Cascadiarch
It does vary by system, though. Some actively help you create interesting melodrama and character moments, like Masks or Monsterhearts or Fate. Some just get out of your way, like D&D, and you have to do it all. Others have rules that are actively hostile to the flavor of the setting (like 1st and 2nd edition Exalted - I haven't tried 3rd).
@aprrrl @Cascadiarch @green Oooooh, I haven't heard of Masks and Monsterhearts before.
@Ulfra_Wolfe @Cascadiarch
OMG!
Masks is the teen superhero melodrama game. You don't take damage, you get distressed emotional states like "Insecure" or "Afraid." To recover, you either have to do something immature, or someone can give you emotional support and you can choose to open up. But they have to roll because you're all teenagers and terrible at feelings. It's amazing!
Monsterhearts is more 'sexy paranormal high school drama' with a lot more PvP potential and being nasty.
@aprrrl @Cascadiarch I WANT TO PLAY MASKS NOW
@Ulfra_Wolfe @Cascadiarch Um, okay! I can run it :)
Not _now_ now, but soon now
@aprrrl @Ulfra_Wolfe @Cascadiarch Monsterhearts is amazing from having read it, and I want to see it in action. Masks sounds amazing; is that also Avery's work?
@literorrery @Ulfra_Wolfe @Cascadiarch No, masks is by Magpie Games and I forget which authors in particular.
Monsterhearts you really need to get on the same page about how much PvP nastiness you're going for. In general my preferred level is "zero" in RPGs, with occasional exceptions for things like this
@aprrrl @Ulfra_Wolfe @Cascadiarch both of these games sound putrid and abhorrent
@BNolet We weren't interested in your opinion.
@aprrrl @Ulfra_Wolfe @Cascadiarch I have to admit that I don't have a lot of experience with current systems--I've hardly touched anything other than Pathfinder/5th Ed in over a decade. but I was super skeptical that it'd be possible to RP within the restrictions of WoW, until I actually got into it and discovered just how much room there is for it, if you look for it.
@Ulfra_Wolfe @Cascadiarch I think that's really a flaw of most level- and class-based games in general. By bunching so much under a common heading, it makes feeling the individuation difficult. Of course, it also provides more of a scaffolding for people who're new to RP to grow into, so there's always tradeoffs to be had.
I want a GURPSy skills-based fantasy game that doesn't feel... GURPSy. Modular shouldn't mean devoid of soul.
We just wove a wonderful story together of a barbarian yak learning how to read their ABCs through a song, and then bringing that song into a tavern while getting drunk, and so the next day people are like, "Uh... what did we do last night?"
'Oh, we sang the ABCs with a barbarian yak!'
That interests me more than what magic item I uncover. @Cascadiarch