@mona The mutability of spirits can always lead to heartbreak. But attempting to restrict any situation that could possibly lead to heartbreak only guarantees pain.

In the same way, I don't think anything can guarantee a relationship will stay the way it is indefinitely. Some last indefinitely as loving, but many divorces will still happen. Restriction of divorce is by far the greater harm.

@Ulfra_Wolfe Count me in as "used to".

@Ulfra_Wolfe this is much of what I dislike with nu-Star Wars; The whole Light Side / Dark Side manichean divide is even more stark and has even less room for shades of grey than the EU did (the sheer breadth of authors meant there was a lot of room for perspectives).

[This post sponsored by the fact I get a chance to use the word 'manichean' in conversation]

@GlitchyDragon What I find interesting about the latest Star Wars was attempts to keep away the "seduction of the light side". That... was an intriguing angle. As if the "light side" was something wrong, something weak, and something that meant more harm than good.

@Ulfra_Wolfe Ohh? I have not come across this; where did you encounter it?

@GlitchyDragon Ep. VII: The Force Awakens.

@GlitchyDragon @Ulfra_Wolfe hm, that's not good to hear...I haven't watched anything past "Force Awakens" (which I liked)

@kara_dreamer @GlitchyDragon The prequels were definitely horrid for that, tho. Like how Anakin goes anxiety-filled to killing children as if there was no real divide.

@Ulfra_Wolfe @kara_dreamer I agree! The whole Anakin arc in all the prequel material is gross.

He is taken from his mother to be raised in what is quite definitely a cult with some very destructive/repressive ideas, repeatedly told he's the Chosen One who will bring Great Change & trained in the tools to, but also kept with very little agency.

Ofc he latches onto the first mentor-figure who gives him a chance to get away from that & choose for himself. -.-

@GlitchyDragon @kara_dreamer I'd like a story where it's revealed the Dark Side has a legit viewpoint that isn't just "kill everyone ambitiously" but like, "Look, we have legit grievances, and we can lead you to power that actually can help you" laced with toxic ideas that can then be questioned and resulting in complex feelings between individuals even if the "cult" feels differently.

@Ulfra_Wolfe @kara_dreamer Compare & Contrast:

The revised version of the Jedi Code that was kept & made canon: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Code

The (unchanged, afaik) Sith Code: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Code_of_the_Sith

The SC is 100% a middle finger to the JC, & the "There is no"/primary JC is.. Just.. Wow. That's some repressive ideology.

I've heard that KotOR II had some interesting moral-greys & Sith perspectives? Not played myself though.

@kara_dreamer @Ulfra_Wolfe (I get the impression the Jedi Code is yet another mangled attempt at Westernized+Bite-Sized Zen Buddhism, with the accompanying failures that usually implies)

@Ulfra_Wolfe @kara_dreamer As an influence, I mean. There are elements of other faiths/philosophies in there, too. (Manicheanism arguably could be one.. But most likely (mangled) Taoism for the Light Side/Dark Side stuff)

@GlitchyDragon @kara_dreamer I wish they went full Taoist. Where the Dark Side and Light Side were different aspects of the self, and the goal is to harmonize them, not for dominance of one over the other.

But it's mostly about space wars and external combat, so they went for restrictive rules.

@Ulfra_Wolfe @kara_dreamer I suspect it's less the necessity for action-drama as (the case with many franchises) it starts out as a self-contained Heroes' Journey & then scrambles to build a cohesive world (& accompanying worldviews) around it once that takes off like a rocket.

@GlitchyDragon @kara_dreamer I remember that KOTOR 1 had the Sith basically like, "If you survive, you're worthy, be as ambitious as possible, trust no one."

Yet they congregated as a group to earn standing... among those that would kill them in a heartbeat and that would give them a passing grade? You can even try to befriend others and turn them on others, but like... that doesn't make sense really.

I didn't like that depiction much.

@Ulfra_Wolfe @kara_dreamer that is interesting, thankyou.

@GlitchyDragon @Ulfra_Wolfe d'you think Lucas meant to make the Jedi look so bad? I never get much impression through the prequels that he or his other writers had a very clear idea

@kara_dreamer @GlitchyDragon @Ulfra_Wolfe *strolls in, sipping her tea* Indeed. It is remarkable how little we really end up knowing, after three movies, of what the Jedi really are, where they came from, or just what is their precise relation to the Galactic Republic. They feel a bit more like an agglomeration of tropes about ageing and ossified clerics to me; they might as well be the Catholic Church.

@Ulfra_Wolfe @kara_dreamer @GlitchyDragon But Anakin was prophesied to be the one who brings balance to the force. Balance, at a time when there were only 2 Sith and a whole council full of Jedi, as well as the school for the kids... What exactly did they think "balance" meant?

@kara_dreamer @Ulfra_Wolfe I am primarily speaking of the Clone Wars (CGI) & Rebels series, which may explain my perspective some.

I have seen the Force Awakens (not R1 yet), but I do not remember the lure of the light side?

@GlitchyDragon @kara_dreamer It's primarily what Kylo Ren kept saying to Spoke. About not wanting to fall to the lure of the light side. That he would be able to do what he needed to do most. The whole bit with him and Han Solo, and how he summoned his strength to kill his father.

@Ulfra_Wolfe @kara_dreamer Ah, interesting. I would imagine that would be primarily read to characterize him further as a villain, but I am not dismissing your own reading as less valid for it.

@GlitchyDragon @kara_dreamer I dunno. He seethes with anger for his dad and implies many times that it was not easy to live with Han Solo. He kept making it sound like he had legitimate grievances, though we don't quite see what they are.

@GlitchyDragon @Ulfra_Wolfe We're jealous, fitting آین مانی in was brilliant.

@Ulfra_Wolfe Why "*if* the demons are very intelligent"?

We assume a balance between light and dark, until we get proven wrong, yet again, so intelligent evil is as mandatory as intelligent good, n'est-ce pas?

Making short-term karmically problematic decisions to achieve a long-term reality could be viewed as serenely intelligent from either a creation or chaos perspective.

@sophieactual Good point!