@demonkind I just think it's funny that Harmon says "it's not for us to decide if life has meaning" meanwhile Rick is like "lol everything is pointless" and the fanbase is like "wooo toxic nihilism!"

@gzt @Maenad It's definitely an issue in our culture. Some of it is not teaching people at various ages in reading that a story is interesting because it's a story, not necessarily because we're supposed to emulate or even sympathize with the protag... to some degree, reading is a skill beyond knowing what the words mean, and that's not really taught.

@ruth @gzt tbh I think that there's a weird "representation matters" argument here.

Representation matters because it's important for young people to be able to have fictional role models.

But if you see yourself in every single character you read, then it breeds a lazy reader. You're supposed to grow out of immediately identifying with the protagonist/not engaging critically.

@Maenad @gzt Yeah, I think that may be why it's such a problem with Rick, as he appeals to the demographic least taught to think critically about this stuff.

@ruth @gzt for the record, I don't think the show creators are innocent in this - while the show has some good points and a lot of depth, they certainly make it easy to be a lazy viewer/find the comedy in Rick's more monstrous actions.

@Maenad @ruth It's a little disappointing because some of Harmon's other work balances that cynical nihilism vs there's something good about the world somewhat acceptably - eg Winger vs Abed in Community. "I like liking things."

@ruth @Maenad Especially since that kind of sarcastic nihilism is attractive to teens and it's only a slight turn from a sort of cynicism that we wouldn't really object to (it's problematic but it's a free country).

@Maenad @ruth yeah, and it's good for kids to start out with media that has protagonists who are actually good as well to develop their moral sentiments before introducing them to more complicated characters that you have to judge.