but also Elon calm down about these robots shit aint gonna happen

@sahil Eh, I wouldn't be so confident? My concern though is people using the robots to be assholes to each other, though, not the robots themselves being dangerous. I mean, the robots are dangerous, but thats a problem we know about and are prepared to face. Considering that the existing fault lines in our society might cave under this new pressure? Not something most people even want to think about. :/

@Angle I mean sure in terms of physical robots regulation is fine, I dont know how regulation would go for that but whatever works is good, but in terms of AI as a whole field is mostly harmless

@sahil Haha oh no way, AI is way more powerful than robotics. Take any decent job, something that would pay 15/hour. Now imagine that they'll work for free and never sleep, costing you only pennies a day for electricity. Thats effectively $360 a day in value, minus a few pennies. Pretty good, right? Ah, but we're not done! Imagine you can copy paste them for just the cost of hardware - a few hundred dollars a pop. Now you have an army of bots, making you $360 a day minus pennies, each. But wait! There's more!

@sahil Because they're AI's, they never take bathroom breaks, they never get sleepy, they're always at the top of their game - all together, we can probably multiply that $15 an hour up to $20 an hour. Not a huge increase, but that takes us from $360 to $480. And because it's a computer, it's blindingly fast - lets say 10x faster, as a conservative estimate. That takes us up to $4800 an hour, per machine.

"But no!" You say. "Theres not enough demand! You would run out of things to have your machines do!" Don't worry, I'll get to that.

@sahil Because of the fact that they're so cheap, we can use these machines for things that never would have been practical before. Tracking every human being in real time, micromanaging soldiers (Or soldier-bots) to an astonishing degree, planning strategy to account for every possible action an enemy might take, etc, etc. Also, they can simply supply that kind of demand themselves. Just have the robots and AI's do whatever they want and keep the product. "Whats the point in that?" you say? Well, consider. On the harmelss end, than might mean motorboats or sexbots. But it might also mean an unstoppable swarm of death machines.

@sahil "Ahahah!" You say. "You're crazy! That could never happen!" Mmm, hopefully I am and it won't. But, consider. Distribution of wealth and power is a problem as old as humanity, if not older and the thing is?

We've. Never. Solved It.

We have, at best, established temporary "solutions" that kept things /relatively/ equitable and meant that only /some/ people died forgotten in the gutter. And now it's going to be tested like never before. What do we do when some people are hungry and helpless, while others are practically gods? I don't know. Maybe our natural goodness triumphs. Maybe we find some clever solution.

@sahil Or maybe the future is a few very rich people who live impossibly luxurious lives, and a very big mass grave for the rest of us. Who can say? Regardless, I guess we'll find out... :/

@Angle Right that is one possibility, I think that with the advent of AI we can shift labor to robots and rather than create this poor/rich divide we can actually get rid of the concept of jobs so that people are able to live on their own will and society can provide a baseline and the rich, its possible to get rid of the constructs that prevent people from doing things and rather create something more enabling

@sahil Ah, but will we be able to share? Remember, the problem here isn't scarcity, it's distribution. We could provide every human being on earth with food, water, medicine, clothes, shelter, etc, right now if we could just solve distribution. But we can't. At the end of the day, the desires that work against this are to strong. People don;t want to share, they don't want others to have, they're afraid of losing what they've got, etc. (Mostly the last one, I think.)

@sahil A.I. is a decent solution for scarcity, but distribution? That's up to us. Maybe the memetic shift brought about by having robots do all the work will eliminate the desires that prevent us from solving distrubution. Or maybe it won't.

@sahil Again, I guess we're going to find out. XD

@Angle ye, though I think AI can do that as well we just need to facilitate the lanes of distribution

@sahil How? Are you going to have A.I. enforce that at gunpoint? have it debate people into agreeing with the idea? Have it bribe them, or politick them? If so, who, exactly, is going to pay for these A.I.s? Ultimately, this solution is a conflict of power. Do you have the power to win it? Does anyone you know? Does everyone you know?

Or do you mean that A.I. managers could oversee the distribution? If so, sure, but thats a solution to a scarcity problem (The scarcity of distribution managers), not the problem of "People don't want that," which is the real problem.

@Angle that's fair, I mean I haven't put crazy thought into this problem but also I need to make a ton of money before I can actually start testing solutions so rip

@sahil Mmm, yeah. My current strategy is to try and make a new kind of internet forum to make it easier for people to discuss complicated problems like this, and maybe hopefully find solutions. You can see it here, if you like: https://agora-2866.nodechef.com/forum

@Angle lol maybe at some point, currently I'm not working on AI issues but yeah at some point I might read through once I finish my current projects and look ahead for new things

@sahil It's not really about A.I. - it's about letting people talk together in very large quantities about very complicated problems. Which, hopefully, might be very helpful for solving the safe use of A.I. But I'm perfectly happy to see it used for other things too. :P

@Angle that's interesting, I might swing by, though its interesting because I usually value having a smaller group of people talk so that everyone is always on the same page generating ideas

@sahil Ah, but see, the idea her is to cover every possible page in all directions and then sort the best ideas to the top. A little brute force, but I think it's viable. It also means you have a ready map of responses for any given argument, even the completely nuts ones.