"Learn how to code" is the new "if you just get a degree you will have a good job"

If everyone takes that advice like everyone took the college advice you will have a shitload of coders and not enough jobs

That will force the wages of coders down to the point you will be begging for microsoft to take your code for free just to have your name out there.

Its what happened to writing and its part of why its hard to get a paid gig, too many writers willing to work for free.

So "learn how to code" is bad advice, Jobs are going away and they are never coming back we need to address this.

We need a universal dividend on all of the automated labor on earth paid out to all of its citizens

@Laurelai Eh... I'm not really sold on basic income. My concern is thats it's a bandaid, on a problem where we need much more than just a band-aid. Like, suppose we pass basic income. And it's good enough to work for everyone. What then?

Well, then we get a decade or so where people think the problem's solved, while wealth and power continue to accumulate into ever fewer hands, until the owners of said wealth and power decide they really don't need the rest of us anymore. What then? :/

@Angle @Laurelai I see UBI as a direction to push in when talking to people who aren't ready to consider public ownership (or whatever you want to call it) of the means of production.

If nothing else, it flatly contradicts a lot of the basic tenets of capitalism. By seeing who agrees and who gets upset, you can get an idea of who your allies and enemies may be.

@woozle @Angle @Laurelai that's a good way to look at it, as something of a litmus test, and perhaps a bridge strategy.

I used to be a big UBI proponent but if it's executed as a function of the government it actually reduces autonomy. It's an improvement for sure, but there needs to be a next step.

Also some people overlook that *everyone* needs to receive it, otherwise you have all the same social alienation as welfare, etc.

@jjg I think UBI is inevitable eventually. It is not the end goal but a important part on the way to it. As we discussed in the other thread. I guess you are afraid it will lead to dependence but as I see it, it is the opposite. Change has to be organic.

How do you see welfare as alienating?

cc: @woozle @Angle @Laurelai

@shellkr @jjg @Angle @Laurelai

I think jjg meant it's alienating *unless* it's truly universal.

If it's not universal, then there's a gatekeeping process (which can be made unpleasant), "who gets it" can become a political tool, stigma can be attached to it, etc.

@woozle @jjg @Angle @Laurelai Okay.. but where is welfare like that? It is typically a right all citizens have.. as long as they don't misuse it. Like buying drugs for the soc money that should have gone to a roof over your head.

@shellkr @jjg @Angle @Laurelai

Not in the US, it isn't.

@woozle @jjg @Angle @Laurelai The US doesn't really have a welfare system... It is what happens when you do not have one. Which makes it a rather good argument for a real welfare system.

I guess you could talk about alienation when it comes to non-citizens... but that is more of a migration discussion than one about UBI.

@shellkr @jjg @Angle @Laurelai

I gather things are almost as bad in the UK, however -- and they were starting from a point of having a much more solid system.

@woozle @jjg @Angle @Laurelai You can't really talk about bad examples when better ones exist. If one can make a good welfare system in one country then that would be what everyone should aspire after. The less welfare your system offer the more alienated and socioeconomically stressed the citizens will be.

@shellkr @jjg @Angle @Laurelai

Bad examples were the reason for the objection in the first place: "see what can happen; how can we prevent this?"